‘Sarrazin factor’ has little effect on immigration attitudes

9 02 2011

From Deutsche Welle:

A survey by major US think-tank the German Marshall Fund has shed new light on European and North American opinions on immigration. But last year’s media furore seems to have done little to change underlying attitudes.

Last year, the immigration issue dominated headlines throughout western Europe and North America like no other. If the press was to be believed, the western world was being engulfed by a wave of intolerance towards immigrants – particularly Muslims.

While Americans grappled with controversial immigrant legislation in Arizona, the French parliament voted for a burqa ban and politician Geert Wilders won 15 percent of the Dutch vote with his anti-immigrant Party for Freedom. In Germany meanwhile, a federal banker called Thilo Sarrazin ignited a media volcano by publishing a book called Germany Abolishes Itself.

But what effect did the resulting media furore – the new “honest debate,” as it was called in Germany – have on the respective populations of these countries? Very little, according to a new survey by US think-tank the German Marshall Fund.

Read the rest.

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14 responses

10 02 2011
Ingrid (reply to 'Ingrid you will never silence those..."

HERE ARE THE FACTS TO WHICH WE TAKE OFFENSE:

(Well, to break this down into 2 posts,
I had to try to write this again, which was in reply to John’s ‘Ingrid you will never silence those…” attack yesterday):

truths you cannot change:

ISLAM is a cruel, brutal, tyrannical religion
ISLAM wants to SILENCE all opposition and disagreement
ISLAM is a RACIST RELIGION, RACIST against BLACK PEOPLE all over the world
(Mohammed called them ‘RAISIN HEADS’)

ISLAM IS FOR THE GENOCIDE OF THE WORLD’S PEOPLE

ISLAM IS THE WORSHIP OF THE GOD ALLAH, WHO HATES HUMANITY

ISLAM IS PERFECTLY REVEALED AND UNCHANGEABLE IN THE QURAN

MOHAMMED IS ALLAH’S SPOKESMAN AND PROPHET

MOHAMMED IS ‘THE PERFECT, BEAUTIFUL MODEL FOR MANHOOD’

MOHAMMED WAS A RAPER OF CHILDREN
MOHAMMED DID MUFTHA KHATHAT (FORCING HIS EJACULATE BETWEEN HER LEGS) WHEN SHE WAS 6 YEARS OLD AND 7 YEARS OLD
MOHAMMED FULLY RAPED AISHA WHEN SHE WAS 8 3/4 YEARS OLD

AISHA WAS AFRAID OF HIM
She described her fear and panic the day she was dragged from her swing with her little friends by her mother to force her to be raped. Aisha said she was gasping, unable to catch her breath, in a panic, terrified.
AISHA’S HAIR FELL OUT DURING HER TIME with MOHAMMED’S CRUELTY
AISHA HAD TO WASH MOHAMMED’S SEMEN OUT OF HIS CLOTHES FROM RAPING HER SO HE WOULD BE PURE FOR PRAYERS TO ALLAH
When Aisha finally grew older to have menstruation, HE RAPED HER DURING HER PERIOD TOO

MOHAMMED LIKED TO BEHEAD INNOCENT PEOPLE
MOHAMMED BEHEADED 800 JEWS IN ONE NIGHT

10 02 2011
Ingrid

Walker, my re-posting of the refutation of the lies allowed here by John from Canada attacking me and my other infidels here was removed, from the other thread, and now this one. Is there some reason this is happening, do you know about it? Please tell me, this seems unfair that truth about the realities of Mohammed cannot be posted on such a website, which is in defense of the truths that Geert Wilders has said, about islam. This is the subject, so why are they being removed?

10 02 2011
Ingrid

I noticed that his vile filthy lies are allowed, so – there is something very wrong when you can’t reply with truth, facts, simple and clear, so anybody can understand this issue.

10 02 2011
walker morrow

Whoops – the site must have caught up your comments in the comments approval process instead of allowing them to post automatically. I’ve approved them now, so they should appear where you posted them.

10 02 2011
Max a proud infidel

Ingrid: AN EXCELLENT SUMMARY. I salute you. Should be circulated world-wide. Good luck and I am with you.

10 02 2011
John

Truths about Ingrid:

Ingrid’s prefered politcal stance towards all Muslims is the forced deportation from “non-Muslim” countries, regardless of age or citizenship status.

Ingrid’s policy preference thus involves stripping all Muslim’s of their constitutional rights to citizenship, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of association and right not to be deprived of their liberty except in accordance with due process of law.

The practical implications of Ingrid’s policy is the rounding up, imprisonment and forced deportation of millions of innnocent human beings (men, women and children), who will be stripped of their legal rights and property, and deported to some other random country (random, since most Muslims have been in western countries for generations – particularily in the Americas where a large percentage of Muslims are African-Americans – or are otherwise of multi-ethnic or multi-nationalistic heritage).

As there should be no need to point out, this policy, in essence, involves the forced imprisonment and removal of African-Americans, South Asians, Northern and Eatern Africans, Indonesian and Arabs (among others, obviously) for no crime other than believe in the religion into which they were born and raised. Essentially, a thought crime.

This amounts to ethnical cleansing, which, obviously, constitutes genocide, under any understanding or interpretation of those terms.

Ingrid has been open and forceful in promoting these policies. She can deny none of what is written above. She just doesn’t like admitting what is obvious to anyone who is not a racist and extremist – that these policies amount to genocide.

Therefore, fact: Ingrid is in favour of ethnic cleansing and genocide. Ingrid is a extreme, crazy, fucked-in-the-head bigot and racist who openly promotes genocide. And Max is also a fan of these things. Ain’t you Max?

10 02 2011
Ingrid, Worldwide Infidel Alliance

Thank you, Walker. that is good to know, (whew). It sounded like something wasn’t working right. but some friends and I thought it was very strange, and someone thought maybe the site was being monitored (censored) by the Feds, it happens as you must know, so that is a relief. I hate to think about things like that in our countries of freedom. that’s why I’m so upset about this whole subject, Geert and what he has to go through because of the truth.

Oh, thank you Max, you are a very kind and strong support to me and the infidels of this site, you and your thoughts and comments are very true and very appreciated, by not only this site and me, but friends and certainly all infidels who read this over the world. Bless you both, thank you again

Infidels, Geert Supporters Worldwide, Strengthen, gird, steel yourselves, and truth will set us free from tyranny
Yah bless, protect, strengthen and keep you all, Walker Morrow, Max, Mr. Singh, Old White Man, essais, Tamara, Kel, bold corsican flame, Stadtkewitz, Moskowitz, all the others, and all the good apostate Muslims who want to get out but can’t yet – we are with you in spirit, and in your love of the truth

10 02 2011
John

Ingrid has given up even trying to refute that she is a supporter of genocide.

10 02 2011
Max a proud infidel

Yes I am John. I am not against the people or the race they belong to islam. I am simply against the religion, which promotes so much violence and hate in today’s world. I ask you one more thing, do you DENY any of these exist in the quran? Furthermore, can you tell me why isn’t there a reformation movement in the Islamic faith, to bring it into the 21st century. If that is done, then you and I (possibly Ingrid) will also be happy. It would also be welcomed by countless millions in Europe and the rest of the world. And there will no need to resort to abusive name calling! Do you understand John?

10 02 2011
Ingrid, Worldwide Infidel Alliance

Joh, take your lies and shut up. We all know everything you say is a lie.

You live as Muslims are ‘forced’ to do dissemble, mischaracterize us, mischaracterize themselves, and tell blatant lies, continually, without conscience, because it was killed early on by the denaturing of the human spirit by Islamic enforced doctrines of devils. Muslims and for some reason, also Islamic defenders/supporters must need to do this, (or else- they must risk death to be free and speak out). When will they realize that death is not the worst thing, but living a lie, on a platform of lies by a crazy man possessed by the devil, and attacking your fellow creatures is much worse than telling the truth, refusing to be a part of the pain and evil, and dying for it, if need be?

10 02 2011
Ingrid, Worldwide Infidel Alliance

It is obvious we are not for genocide, I have given up refuting your lies, John.

I don’t normally talk to liars, unless I have to. Because I don’t respond to every time you accuse and lie, is not in any way acceptance of your lie. I responded with the truth – it is not infidels who are for murdering innocents, it is Islam’s biggest precept and goal.

10 02 2011
Ingrid, Worldwide Infidel Alliance

Exactly, Max.

EXACTLY.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND THIS JOHN? MUSLIMS, ANY OF YOU?

The power to stop this madness is in your hands. Do something with it.

Refute the barbaric commmands and therefore, you will be in truth, Peaceful People. Then, no one is murdered, raped, mauled, mutilated, and everyone is happy.

10 02 2011
John

Ingrid – please explain what in my post mischaracterizes your policy preferences towards Muslims? You have been quite explicit in the past on this site that you want to see all Muslims, regardless of age or citizenship forcibly deported. If your view has changed, please explain. If your viwe has not changed, then you still support genocide and I will continue to characterize your views as I have been.

Max – you and Ingrid are promoting ethnic cleansing and genocide. I will call you whatever god-damn names I want to until you stop seeking to deprive millions of innocent civilians of their constitutional rights. You see, I quite enjoy secular, democratic constitutionalism. This includes things like freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of association and the right to property unless deprived thereof within the due process of the law. These are the things you are fighting to destroy. So, no, I won’t stop calling you names because I think you are a facist piece of shit. And you should know how strongly regular people are going to oppose you while you continue down your quest to politically repress innocent minorities. Sorry, that’s just the way it is.

Now, in response to your specific question about Ingrid’s post – some of those things are true. Some are questions of interpretation or opinion. And some are just ridiculous bigoted trash. For example:

“ISLAM is a cruel, brutal, tyrannical religion” – opinion, obviously. The vast, overwhelming majority of muslims are peaceful and law abiding. The countries with the 5 largest Muslims populations on earth are all democracies (Indonesian, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indian and Nigeria). The 6th largest – Egypt – is in the middle of a democratic revolution. And, and should be obvious to anyone with half a brain (which doesn’t necessarily include you, obviously), “Islam” isn’t any one thing and doesn’t “say” any one thing. It has many sects, no centralize heirachy and over a billion adherents who each have their own thoughts and interpretations of Islamic scriptures. So, of course it is true that some people interpret Islam in a cruel way. Those people should be dealt with to teh full extent of the law in every case in which that cruelty is implemented in an unlawful way. But the same is true of every religion. I am an athiest myself. And I think there is disgusting and cruel things in every holy book. The Old Testament is full of outright genocide. It also involves the stoning of homosexuals and the stoning of women for being unclean. So the fuck what? I don’t go around hating every Christian and Jew when they refuse to renounce their religion, as Ingrid and you do to Muslims.

“ISLAM wants to SILENCE all opposition and disagreement” – See above comment

“ISLAM is a RACIST RELIGION, RACIST against BLACK PEOPLE all over the world
(Mohammed called them ‘RAISIN HEADS’)” – There are hundreds of millions of black Muslims. Religion has been used by all religions to justify racism. Slavery in America was justified in Christian terms for a hundred years. Again, plenty of basis to call Christianity a “racist” religion. But I don’t. Cause I am not the kind of bigot towards Christians that you are towards Muslims.

“ISLAM IS FOR THE GENOCIDE OF THE WORLD’S PEOPLE” – I know lots of Muslims. None of them support genocide. Ingrid of the other hand ….

“ISLAM IS THE WORSHIP OF THE GOD ALLAH, WHO HATES HUMANITY” – The first part is true. The second part doesn’t really mean anything to me. I’m an atheist. I don’t think Allah exists. It would be like saying the easter bunny hates humanity to me.

“ISLAM IS PERFECTLY REVEALED AND UNCHANGEABLE IN THE QURAN” – This is indeed was Muslims believe. As an atheist, I believe Mohommed was probably mentally ill or a liar. But I believe that about Jesus too. Again, not a basis for being a bigot in the manner that you and Ingrid are.

“MOHAMMED IS ALLAH’S SPOKESMAN AND PROPHET” – This is what Muslims believe, yes.

“MOHAMMED IS ‘THE PERFECT, BEAUTIFUL MODEL FOR MANHOOD’” – Also what Muslim’s believe.

“MOHAMMED WAS A RAPER OF CHILDREN
MOHAMMED DID MUFTHA KHATHAT (FORCING HIS EJACULATE BETWEEN HER LEGS) WHEN SHE WAS 6 YEARS OLD AND 7 YEARS OLD
MOHAMMED FULLY RAPED AISHA WHEN SHE WAS 8 3/4 YEARS OLD

AISHA WAS AFRAID OF HIM
She described her fear and panic the day she was dragged from her swing with her little friends by her mother to force her to be raped. Aisha said she was gasping, unable to catch her breath, in a panic, terrified.
AISHA’S HAIR FELL OUT DURING HER TIME with MOHAMMED’S CRUELTY
AISHA HAD TO WASH MOHAMMED’S SEMEN OUT OF HIS CLOTHES FROM RAPING HER SO HE WOULD BE PURE FOR PRAYERS TO ALLAH
When Aisha finally grew older to have menstruation, HE RAPED HER DURING HER PERIOD TOO” – There seems to be evidence in the Koran that Mohammed and Aisha consummated their marriage when she was about 9. This probably meant rape by modern western definitions of the word. I would certainly consider it as such now. I absoltely condemn it. Now having said that, child marriage was extremely common in all bedoin and nomadic civilizations in all of history. It was quite normal then, in most societies, for women to be treated as property. Thanksfully, we have come a long way. I certainly don’t think Mohammed lived in a manner I should emulate. As I said, I am not a Muslims. But plenty of influential Christians and Jews did horrible things. Constantine is a saint and he murdered his son. I don’t ask Christians to denounce their religion because of it and I don’t support the ethnic cleansing of Christians because of it. I don’t do that because I believe that people should be judged on their own individual actions and beliefs. I don’t think that every member of a religion should be the target of massive political repression by virtue of their membership in the religion. I believe in individual rights and constitutional protections. You and Ingrid hate these things and wish to destroy them.

Finally, there are plenty of Muslims reformers all over the world. Thousands of them are in the streets in Egypt right now. Many more live quite, unassuming, peaceful lives you will never hear about. These are the people whose civil rights you are trying to destroy. Do you understand that Max? Do you understand now that people who belief in rights and democracy will never let you destroy western constitutions and implement wide spread ethnic cleansing? What else do I need to tell you to that through yout thick, bigoted skull? Let me know…

2 03 2011
Ingrid Worldwide Infidel Alliance

Shalom, Max. I don’t ever reply to John’s posts because he is a lying vile hateful blasphemer, as you know.

I wonder if Muslims ever see their lies and filth and hatred and know there is a judgment day?

And worry?

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